PCI L-Bracket Extenders

Batman_360 · 11-05-2009, 12:51 AM

Hey guys, I'm thinking of building a computer into the backside of my 24" LCD panel. The construction would be mostly wood, metal and acrylic, and would house an Asus P6T, i7 920 + Xigmatek Dark Knight (2 fans, push-pull), Radeon 4870, 3x2GB ram, 2 hard drives, 630w modular PSU, with space to expand to eATX if need be (second i7 920? second 4870? both?!). These components currently exist inside an Antec 900 I have slightly modded for dust filtering and light reasons.

As an architecture student, I have access to a digital fabrication lab as well as a wood shop and a metal shop. I also have a bit of knowledge about thermal insulation, as an LCD panel would generate lots of heat.

However, I wouldn't want to kill the functionality of a nice, thin LCD monitor... so I wish to keep the computer as thin as possible. What options do I have for modulating my PCI Express connections (4870, SB Audigy sound card, Belkin G wireless card)? I've heard of L-brackets before, but are there more options?

***EDIT: I now know about flexible, custom-length PCI extender ribbon cables. This is a touchy area of computer building, though... apparently, PCI slots are ridiculously fickle about timing, and too long of a cable could create timing issues/errors for high-bandwidth cards (i.e. my sound card will not have a problem but my HD 4870 will). I have seen it mentioned that BIOS mods can fix that, but I don't know anything about timings in the BIOS. Anybody know how to shed some light on the matter?

Also, it appears that my Raidmax 630w is one of the thickest elements of my Antec 900 case, no matter which orientation it is turned to. Is there a slimmer type of PSU? It's not the end of the world if I am stuck with desktop PSU's, but I wonder how K-Tron dealt with supplying power to his desktop-parts octi-tron laptop.

Thanks for helping me brainstorm,
Batman

Sprint · 11-05-2009, 11:28 AM

how are you planning on mounting the dark knight?

its one tall heatsink

Batman_360 · 11-05-2009, 12:10 PM

The Dark Knight will extrude out of the case, circulating independent air. I will vacuum-form a clear styrene or acrylic panel for the the outer back wall (the wall facing the components). The panel will dip toward the mobo around the Dark Knight such that both of the fans I've mounted (one officially, one "moddedly") will cycle air completely independent of the rest of the case. Sorry if I gave the impression that this would look like a giant box - the LCD panel would really be the only planar feature, as well as the mobo mounting wall.

PS: look to the Level 10 to see my hard drive and bay layout inspiration; but reimagine it with some parts reconfigured in wood and acrylic.

Don't worry about the geometry, structural feasability, acoustics or airflow... I've got some pretty abstract stuff on tap. Amazing what a digital fabrication lab can do

What I know nothing about is the electronics and limitations.

Sprint · 11-05-2009, 12:34 PM

Well, I suppose the kind of obvious is that you need to keep a certain level of airflow over pretty much the whole MB as pretty much all chips and resistors generate heat to a certain extent (you really only need to worry about the heatsinked parts (Southbridge, VRMs around the CPU and RAM are the parts you need to care for) so the MB cant be completely sealed.

Other than that I dont think you need to worry about many other parts.
(correct me if Im wrong)

Batman_360 · 11-05-2009, 08:08 PM

Right. I intend to keep that certain level of airflow. Although I wonder what would happen if all of my fans, hovering an inch above the motherboard and components, blew air out of the case?

If anybody could give me confirmation that graphics card difficulties resulting from the use of a PCI extender (flexible cable OR L-bracket)can be remedied or will be irreparable, please shoot it this way!

K-TRON · 11-05-2009, 10:00 PM

Dont use a flexible ribbon cable. I bought one, turns out they are really flimsy.
For one there is something about them, that they cant be used as boot devices. Yes a graphics card will boot off of it, but a RAID card will not. I have a LSI MegaRaid PCIeX8 adaptor, and it will not be recognized when plugged into the flex cable. So I am using hard angle brackets.
The power supply is not a problem for modding.
I sure wish I could have helped, but the loosers over at NBR gave me no choice other than to delete my posts on my laptop project.

Dont bother with that big heatsink, if you have the tools mill your own. If not, use low profile server heatsinks, they are manufactured out of higher grade copper than normal desktop heatsinks. Hence why they can cool the same TDP processors in smaller form factors.

Your ideas can be done, I am an architecture student as well. It just takes quite a lot of time. Unfortunately I am in Vertical Studio's so I have not had the time I have wanted this semester to work on it.

K-TRON

Batman_360 · 11-06-2009, 05:27 AM

Can one really mill a HDT heatsink with a digital mill? We have one, and I can do some quick research on fin shape optimization and model it and all; however, the construction of the pipes confuses me, since I have less experience in metalworking than in digifab and wood shop (and plain ol' studio, amirite? :P). If it's as simple as modeling a void into which I can insert a tube, that's easy, but it seems to me that a post-milling insertion method would create horrible dispersion from the pipes into the fins.

Don't worry, dude, I read your laptop's thread until you closed it, I'm relatively up to date on the project.

My last question is: Is there any way for a guy like me, with no prior knowledge of wire soldering or circuitry (but a willingness to learn), to get ahold of a tiny LCD panel (5" - 10") and add it into the mix? I would love a dedicated screen for Rainmeter, ObjectDock, clock, temps, etc. I was looking at capacitive touchscreens but the apparatus from which I could extract such a screen is very expensive. Not to mention my hardware probably doesn't even support touch.

CalebSchmerge · 11-06-2009, 01:01 PM

Small LCDs should be pretty easy to add to the mix. Often times you could even use one from a portable DVD player and use it without having to solder.

Batman_360 · 11-06-2009, 05:10 PM

@ K-Tron, thanks for the warning about booting off ribbon PCI extenders. However, with an L-bracket riser card, my 4870 will turn down such that its underside (the side with the fans, heatsinks, circulation, etc.) faces the motherboard. Since you said a GPU will boot off a ribbon cable, I wanted the opposite to take place if possible, so that the underside of my GPU ends up facing outward - it makes more sense that way, right? I realize that once the orientations of cards are significantly altered, their mounting apparatus must also change, but that fact notwithstanding I think it's pretty counterintuitive to make the exhaust fan blow at the mobo. Am I worrying too much about those temps, when I don't overclock my gpu?

EDIT: Speaking of temps, I'm looking through the interwebs for server CPU coolers, and every single one ends up cheaper than the top traditional coolers. Is this because they're worse, or just because nobody knows about them? I'm seeing $15 - $35 for a server CPU cooler... none of them are as huge as the big-name HDT coolers (Megalehems, TRUE, etc.). Could you recommend me a server CPU cooler?

@CalebSchmerge, thank you for the optimistic reply. What about digital picture frames? Those seem to sell for way cheaper ($30-40 on ebay) but if their wiring is way more rudimentary or hard for me to deal with, then I guess I'd shell out $70 for a small dvd player. Speaking of wiring, how would the tiny screen integration work? Do those monitors use some kind of VGA or DVI connection? Or does it get into circuitry and merging cables? Because I have no experience with that sort of thing (granted, I go to carnegie mellon, so I'm surrounded by engineers and could probably find help).

EDIT: What about a netbook LCD panel? $42 for 1024x600 isn't bad for an auxiliary screen!
http://www.hootoo.com/89-inchs-acer-...en-p-8727.html

What kind of apparatus would I need to wire that baby into my system?

Hopefully nothing too complicated or expensive!

Thanks for all the help so far, guys!

K-TRON · 11-07-2009, 12:29 AM

Your pci express issue is not a problem. You are looking at A SIDE PCIExpress risers. Look for a 1U B side riser, it will let the PCB face of the graphics card face the motherboard
You dont need to worry about temperatures when the fan on the graphics card is close to the motherboard, you need to worry when the PCB nears the motherboard. I recommend separating them by a piece of bass wood. Wood is not a good thermal conductor, so it will keep the graphics card from melting the motherboard.

The CPU Coolers price can be low or high, it depends on what manufacturer you are looking at. A good CoolJag/Dynatron will run you $40-70.
They will be better coolers than the larger desktop coolers. When you buy a TRUE, you buy the Thermalright name, which is stupid. Thermalright makes bad coolers, so you are just wasting your time.

You can mill your own heatsink with a 5 arm mill, and it can be done by a skilled machinist on an old bridgeport.

K-TRON